A Compelling Truth from Rev. Dr. James Forbes
In 1997, when the post-production company I was working for closed, I was searching for my next career move. Vying for a position at the historic Riverside Church, I had the good fortune of interviewing with the Reverend Dr. James A. Forbes, who at the time was the first African-American senior minister of one of the largest multicultural and interdenominational congregations in the United States. Under his leadership, I went on to lead arts programming and festivals at the Theater of the Riverside Church for the next fourteen years.
In 2019, I had the honor of producing Dr. Forbes’ Juneteenth program at Carnegie Hall. Dr. Forbes has been a force of inspiration and sage wisdom, guiding me and countless others to emulate his vision of creating a better society for all.
Internationally renowned as a minister, educator, and social activist, Dr. Forbes, during his eighteen-year tenure at Riverside, continued to advance a platform for social justice and civil rights from the pulpit, hosting such dignitaries as Nelson Mandela and the Dali Lama. In 1996, Newsweek recognized Dr. Forbes as one of the twelve “most effective preachers” in the English-speaking world.
A consultant to the Congress of National Black Churches and past President of The Martin Luther King Fellows, Dr. Forbes has been awarded 14 honorary degrees. He is currently Founder and President of the Healing of the Nations Foundation.
Dr. Forbes, you’ve been an educator, pastor, and senior minister for several decades. What does your journey as a spiritual leader mean to you?
If you are called to be a preacher and you say yes, that’s because you believe that life has implored you to be a person who keeps your eye on the Lord, listens to God’s guidance and then transmit that wisdom, as best you can, to the people you relate to.
I accepted the call to ministry in 1956 and I’ve attempted to listen to the voice of the Lord in my spirit– I don’t mean hallucinations or anything like that. Lord, you tell me what to do and say, and I’ll do my best to convey your guidance to the people. That has been my life.
My prayer every morning is: Holy Spirit, lead me, guide me as I move throughout the day. May your promptings deep inside me, show me what to do and say. In the power of your presence strength and courage will increase. In the wisdom of your guidance is the path to peace.
I’ve been trying to get my orders for each day since 1956.
Dr. Forbes, Ebony Ecumenical Ensemble and the Harlem Chamber Players, Juneteenth at Carnegie Hall, June 2019
Since you left the Riverside Church, you founded and have been leading the Healing of the Nations Foundation. What does a healing of this nation look like?
A very fascinating question. Do we really believe that God is invested in what happens in the world? And if there is such a thing as a God who is invested in this world, does it automatically suggest that God would like to see us well and whole? If so, does God communicate opportunities for us to be instruments by which we provide health and healing?
When I left Riverside Church and established Healing of the Nations, it was based on a chapter in the Book of Revelations that talks about the tree of life. The leaves of that tree are for the healing of the nation. God is invested in the nation being whole. To be whole, an individual must decide that their job is to do the best they can to be whole in their body, mind, spirit, emotions, community involvement, and socio-economic and political aspects.
If you are truly whole, you participate as a leaf of the tree of life. A healthy nation has individuals who are trying to be whole, but who are also contributing to the health and wellness of others. We are not quite there. Selfishness and greed seem to be the order of the day.
The spirit of Ubuntu - I am, because we are
This virus has made it necessary for us recognize that it’s no longer possible to be whole by yourself. The African proverb “I am, because we are” suggests that it is only as we remember the common good, and as we think about and treat our neighbors as sisters and brothers, that we can have a quality life together.
This COVID situation has brought uncertainty, fear, anxiety, among so many other feelings and emotions. How would you suggest we navigate the changes that are the cause of these feelings?
I believe that God has equipped the human being to watch what is happening and respond to it out of human creativity. Stuff happens. We have to learn what to do with the stuff. When tragedy comes you ask: how do I extract some possibilities from this awful situation and do something with it? I ask myself, what good can I get out of this mess? Also, ask: what good can I do in the midst of the mess? That takes a positive outlook on life.
Coming through this crisis, what shifts in behavior or perspectives do leaders need to make in order to better serve people?
Every leader should take an oath of office. I don’t mean putting your hand on the Bible. I mean you have to be committed to help the quality of the community emerge. To be a leader, be committed to the life of the people—not just to your life. This is how you discern what is good for the community. If you don’t do that, you are a bogus leader. A godly leader seeks to bring about the abundance of life that God intends for the people.
Deep listening is a critical practice in our Jazz Leadership Project model. In what ways does deep listening serve in your role as a spiritual leader?
There’s an expression in Bible that says deep calling unto deep. We ought to recognize that everyday life is still invested in bringing the best possibilities, but we have to listen to what life to saying to us. We have to meditate on what path to take. What enriches life and what diminishes life? Listen to your heart. As the expression says, “keep thy heart for all diligence, for out of it are the issues of life.” If you only listen to yourself, you will get only half of the instructions of the good way of life. We’ve got to listen to each other.
You have to listen to friends and enemies. You can learn something deep from your enemies.
When you’re on the set, the beauty of your performance is how well you listen to each other. How you bring your truth into the truth of their chords and their key.
— Rev. Dr. James A. Forbes
Dr. Forbes performing his poetry at the Ebony Ecumenical Ensemble’s 41st Anniversary Concert, February 2020
You are an avid poet and songwriter. What do these creative expressions mean to you?
We speak of muses. There is a goddess of thought, a goddess of word, a goddess of idea. I dabble in verse. When you ask: “what’s going on?” and stop and listen, an answer will come. Now that’s a piece of life, right there. As a poet, you want to capture that piece of life in memorable form. You may not be able to see it tomorrow, so you want to put it in a form that is retrievable for the wisdom. It may be retrievable through the rhythm or the rhyme, or the image you paint with your words. Life is too valuable to let it drift by.
Life is so valuable, so beautiful—sometimes ugly—but memorable, so you want to hold on to it and revisit tomorrow, after it has passed.
— Rev. Dr. James A. Forbes
Is there a poem you’ve written in response to this crisis?
[Dr. Forbes recited this poem he wrote in response to the pandemic]:
A Compelling Truth in Coronavirus Time
There comes a time when everyone will see limits of individuality
Neither wealth, fame, nor political clout has the power to cast this demon out
Our neighborhood’s fate may rise upon our sneeze
A friendly handshake may transmit disease
Indifference, malevolence, and greed are the conditions where viruses breed
Before this crisis can complete its course, the common good must recover its course
The world needs emergency surgery to the next connecting of all as one family
When you look around today, what inspires you?
A great company, from time to time, will decide that the business needs an upgrade. They will put a notice on the factory gate saying: “We are closed. Pardon the inconvenience of our closure. We are upgrading the equipment in our building.” We usually suffer the inconvenience of the factory closing down.
What inspires me today, as a positive outlook on the virus, is that the world, civilization, was not functioning optimally. The virus closed down the factory of civilization to make upgrading and a higher level of technical efficiency possible. Spiritually, that is what we mean by “All things work together for good.”
This is an awful, awful situation. Maybe what the Lord is saying is that civilization, with its bigotry, racism, xenophobia, sexism, meanness, isn’t going to produce well any longer. One way to think about it is that this civilization has been interrupted, hopefully, for upgrades. Every now and then, when I see some action which suggests that God has placed, in the human heart, some kindness, care, and thoughtfulness for others, I think it’s one of God’s workers making this a better world.
In deep moments of despair, I say “wait until the factory opens again.” My hope is that the factory will open with new technology, better products, etc.
I see signs of hope and a brighter future if we can hold on and get through this mess.
[Dr. Forbes also recited this poem in response to some of the hatred he has observed during this pandemic]:
The Vaccine of Love
Stop the virus of hate from spreading across the land
Bigotry is a deadly weapon the nation cannot stand
The isms of division and the seeds of fear
Will start an epidemic throughout the atmosphere
The spirit of our nation is desperately pleading today
This is our blue-green planet, don’t let hatred take it away
Take the vaccine of love in a hurry
Let’s spread it far and near
Teach it and preach it everywhere
Until the air is clear
